Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Jul 15, 2015 18:50:11 GMT -5
A hilarious and informative introduction to economics. Don't worry, the lyrics are 100% clean.
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Jul 16, 2015 9:21:34 GMT -5
What are your own economic views?
Of the two, Hayek seems the more reasonable, however (and I may be wrong), it seems to me that an unrestricted market leads to an endless string of monopolies, and the best way to prevent this is the guild system, with minimal government interference (all the government has to do is sign the charter). Also a tax reform which simplifies taxes to 10% of all revenue across the board and removes property tax, though certainly with some kind of municipality tax.
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Jul 16, 2015 10:19:14 GMT -5
Hayek is the best of the two. Keynes is promoting the muddy mess of what the US is doing nowadays. Hayek promotes Free Market economy. He is yet another great son of Austria-Hungary.
Some selected quotes:
"Socialism has never and nowhere been at first a working-class movement. It is by no means an obvious remedy for the obvious evil which the interests of that class will necessarily demand. It is a construction of theorists, deriving from certain tendencies of abstract thought with which for a long time only the intellectuals were familiar; and it required long efforts by the intellectuals before the working classes could be persuaded to adopt it as their program."
"There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal."
"The misconception that costs determined prices prevented economists for a long time from recognizing that it was prices which operated as the indispensable signals telling producers what costs it was worth expending on the production of the various commodities and services, and not the other way around."
"There is no salvation for Britain unless the special privileges granted to the trade unions in 1906 are revoked. the average level of real wages of British workers would undoubtedly be higher, and their chances of finding employment better, if the wages of different occupations were again determined by the market and all limitations on the work an individual is allowed to do were removed."
"Well, I would say that, as long-term institutions, I am totally against dictatorships. But a dictatorship may be a necessary system for a transitional period. At times it is necessary for a country to have, for a time, some form or other of dictatorial power. As you will understand, it is possible for a dictator to govern in a liberal way. And it is also possible for a democracy to govern with a total lack of liberalism. Personally I prefer a liberal dictator to democratic government lacking liberalism." (By the way, he means liberal in the same way Erik Ritter von Kuehnelt Leddihn does, not in the modern American understanding)
"To understand our civilisation, one must appreciate that the extended order resulted not from human design or intention but spontaneously: it arose from unintentionally conforming to certain traditional and largely moral practices, many of which men tend to dislike, whose significance they usually fail to understand, whose validity they cannot prove, and which have nonetheless fairly rapidly spread by means of an evolutionary selection — the comparative increase of population and wealth — of those groups that happened to follow them. "
"The main point of my argument is, then, that the conflict between, on one hand, advocates of the spontaneous extended human order created by a competitive market, and on the other hand those who demand a deliberate arrangement of human interaction by central authority based on collective command over available resources is due to a factual error by the latter about how knowledge of these resources is and can be generated and utilised."
"Constitutional monarchy offers us … that neutral power so indispensable for all regular liberty. In a free country the king is a being apart, superior to differences of opinion, having no other interest than the maintenance of order and liberty. He can never return to the common condition, and is consequently inaccessible to all the passions that such a condition generates, and to all those that the perspective of finding oneself once again within it, necessarily creates in those agents who are invested with temporary power."
"We shall not grow wiser before we learn that much that we have done was very foolish."
All in all, he is very good in economics, and pretty good in politics, though not as good as Oliviera or Kuehnelt-Leddihn.
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Jul 16, 2015 11:39:11 GMT -5
Not having read much of Hayek, I can't fairly criticize his economics; however two phrases from your quotes stood out to me:
"and which have nonetheless fairly rapidly spread by means of an evolutionary selection"
"the market and all limitations on the work an individual is allowed to do were removed"
Now I may be interpreting this wrongly, but the removal of restrictions would lead to rampant mistreatment of workers, poor working conditions, and monopolies, while the fundamentally moral system of the guild advocated by such liberals as G.K. Chesterton (who said that he never left the liberal party, it left him) would prevent such occurrences, allowing for Freedom within Authority. And the Social Darwinism that puts Survival of the Finical Fit above the Common Good seems to be creeping in with the mention of evolutionary selection. Something along the lines of this quote from Fr. Robert Hugh Benson's The Dawn of All (I highly recommend you read it):
"Ideals of Social Reform met with the same experiences. The Socialist with his dream of a Divine Society, the Anarchist with his passionate nightmare of complete individual liberty, both ran up together, in the heart of the black darkness, against the vast outline of a Divine Family that was a fact and not a far-off ambition—a Family that fell in Eden and became a competitive State; a Holy Family that redeemed Nazareth and all the world; a Catholic Family in whom was neither Jew nor Greek, nor masters against men—in whom the doctrine of Vocation secured the rights and the dignities of the Society on one side and the Individual on the other."
"We encourage the individual to be as individualistic as possible, and draw the limits very widely, beyond which he mustn't go. But those limits are imperative. We try to develop both extremes at once—liberty and law. We had enough of the via media—the mediocrity of the average—under Socialism."
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Jul 16, 2015 11:53:08 GMT -5
Yeah, you are right. However, I would say that the market should be left alone as much as possible.
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Jul 16, 2015 11:55:05 GMT -5
Yes, I agree.
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Jul 16, 2015 19:03:41 GMT -5
Although, shouldn't the guilds be regulating such things, not the government?
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Jul 16, 2015 19:56:01 GMT -5
Although, shouldn't the guilds be regulating such things, not the government? Yes, though the guild charter would have the effect of a law and be binding on the members of the guild.
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The Chancellor
Administrator
Posts: 7
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Prinz
Age: 15
Favorite Monarch: Charles I Carolingia
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Post by The Chancellor on Jul 19, 2015 22:28:49 GMT -5
The most minimal control over economies should rest in a chamber which has proper representation from all industries. Though a Monarch may be anointed by God, and God leads him through the path he must follow, God must also provide for him a worldly help in his reign.
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