Defender of the Faith
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Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Oct 1, 2015 21:42:14 GMT -5
In my opinion, the worst American Presidents were:
10. Warren Harding - Not truly bad, just disgustingly corrupt.
9. Millard Fillmore - Not a bad president, but went on to lead the Anti-Catholic Know-Nothings.
8. William McKinley - Started the Spanish-American War.
7. Jimmy Carter - Incompetent left-wing blunderer.
6. Bill Clinton - Incompetent and immoral left-winger.
5. Franklin Delano Roosevelt - Socialist who admired Stalin, calling him "Uncle Joe".
4. Andrew Jackson - Genocidal maniac who did his level best to exterminate the Native Americans.
3. Abraham Lincoln - Violated the Constitution, arrested his political enemies, shut down opposition newspapers, suspended the writ of Habeus Corpus, encouraged psychopaths like Phil Sheridan and William T. Sherman to commit war crimes and launched a war of aggression against the Confederate States of America, a sovereign and independent nation.
2. Woodrow Wilson - Aided liberals in Mexico, joined the Allies in WW1, founded the League of Nations, supported Nationalists, deposed the Hohenzollern and Habsburg Monarchs, dismembered Austria-Hungary and help set up WW2.
1. Barack Obama - Needs no explanation.
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Oct 2, 2015 17:21:03 GMT -5
Good list, except for Lincoln. The Independent and Sovereign Confederate States launched an unprovoked attack on United States territory, held by the federal government.
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Oct 2, 2015 17:38:26 GMT -5
You mean the Federal government refusing to hand of the territory of the state of South Carolina? He would also still be terrible for all the other things I listed.
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Oct 2, 2015 17:45:49 GMT -5
When the States seceded, they only had legitimate rights to state property, not federal property (U.S. property, hence act of aggression, hence war). I suppose you could have Lincoln on the list for the other reasons (some of which could be considered emergency measures- this is not an excuse for Sherman and Sheridan). I consider Lincoln as a mixed bag myself.
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Oct 2, 2015 18:30:58 GMT -5
Fort Sumter was on South Carolinian soil, when South Carolina seceded the U.S. lost all rights to it.
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Oct 2, 2015 18:39:52 GMT -5
But if it was the State of South Carolina that seceded, doesn't it follow that State only had legitimate claim to State territory, and that Federal Property remained U.S. territory? If not, why did Davis try to "purchase" Federal property in the South?
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Oct 2, 2015 18:51:44 GMT -5
Such a gesture would have been entirely futile, as the United States refused to recognize the Confederacy, which is what caused several peace attempts to fail.
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Oct 2, 2015 18:57:37 GMT -5
True, and it was, but nevertheless it was attempted.
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Oct 2, 2015 19:34:27 GMT -5
If it is admittedly futile, why would you try? Especially considering that you have just started a country and as such, are somewhat short of federal funds.
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Oct 2, 2015 19:42:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure, but it did happen. I'll try to find some sources about it.
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Oct 2, 2015 19:43:45 GMT -5
Buying of land or peace negotiations?
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Oct 2, 2015 19:44:33 GMT -5
Both.
Edit: Attempted buying of land and peace negotiations.
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Oct 2, 2015 20:03:22 GMT -5
I will admit, there were hot heads and radicals on the southern side as well, but in my opinion they are less to blame then their Northern counterparts, especially given that my state of North Carolina, along with Tennessee, Arkansas and Virginia did not secede until Lincoln declared his intention to invade the South.
Also, don't take this as any sort of hostility to the North. Many northerners opposed the War, in particular Clement Vallandigham. Who summed things up pretty well, aside from his comments on Monarchy (From Wikipedia):
"Declaring the present war "a wicked, cruel, and unnecessary war"; "a war not being waged for the preservation of the Union"; "a war for the purpose of crushing out liberty and erecting a despotism"; ... stating "that if the Administration had so wished, the war could have been honorably terminated months ago"; that "peace might have been honorably obtained by listening to the proposed intermediation of France"; that "propositions by which the Northern States could be won back, and the South guaranteed their rights under the Constitution, had been rejected the day before the late battle of Fredericksburg, by Lincoln and his minions", meaning thereby the President of the United States, and those under him in authority; charging "that the Government of the United States was about to appoint military marshals in every district, to restrain the people of their liberties, to deprive them of their rights and privileges"; characterizing General Orders No. 38, from Headquarters Department of the Ohio, as "a base usurpation of arbitrary authority", inviting his hearers to resist the same, by saying, "the sooner the people inform the minions of usurped power that they will not submit to such restrictions upon their liberties, the better"; declaring "that he was at all times, and upon all occasions, resolved to do what he could to defeat the attempts now being made to build up a monarchy upon the ruins of our free government"; asserting "that he firmly believed, as he said six months ago, that the men in power are attempting to establish a despotism in this country, more cruel and more oppressive than ever existed before."
All of which opinions and sentiments he well knew did aid, comfort, and encourage those in arms against the Government, and could but induce in his hearers a distrust of their own Government, sympathy for those in arms against it, and a disposition to resist the laws of the land.
The peace proposal of France was true; Vallandigham had been requested by Horace Greeley to assist in the peace plan."
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Post by The Hapsburg Restorationist on Oct 2, 2015 20:22:00 GMT -5
Don't take this as anti-Southern, but in my opinion the South kind of shot itself in the foot by attacking first, giving the North a reason (albeit a weak one) to invade.
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Defender of the Faith
Administrator
Posts: 267
Religion: Roman Catholic
Rank: Großfürst
Age: 16
Favorite Monarch: Bl. Karl of Austria
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Post by Defender of the Faith on Oct 2, 2015 21:14:38 GMT -5
I agree that the South should have just sat it out and waited until Ft. Sumter ran out of supplies, but Pierre Gustave Toutant-Beauregard felt that he needed to make a show of things.
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